The late, great poet-rapper Gil Scott-Heron famously observed that the revolution will not be televised, but Romanian director Vlad Petri begs to differ with his superb found-footage documentary Between Revolutions. Interweaving rare archive footage from both the Iranian revolution of 1979 and the popular uprising against Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceausescu 10 years later, Petri’s prize-winning docu-fiction hybrid is structured as a series of letters between two close female friends caught up in these world-shaking events, Zahra and Maria. These fictional letters were inspired by real cases from the vaults of Romania’s former Communist-era secret police, the Securitate. The Film Verdict caught up with Petri at Sarajevo film festival, where Between Revolutions is screening in competition.
Greetings Vlad, are you enjoying Sarajevo?
“Yes, it’s an amazing place! I’m really happy that I screen my film here, because it’s a city that connects the past with the present and the East with the West. So it’s an amazing place to be.”
Between Revolutions has already won multiple awards and played numerous festivals, are you surprised that it seems to have such wide appeal?
“When I was researching this I didn’t know the film would have a universal appeal because it’s of course about Romania, and Iran. At the same time, I have to be honest, during the editing we were asking ourselves many questions regarding how much information should we put into the film about what happened in these two countries? In the end we decided it’s better to go on the more personal level of the story, a more intimate level, to let the film connect maybe to a wider audience.”
The film remains vague about whether its two female protagonsts are just close friends or ex-lovers. Was this deliberate?
“Yes, because we never see the women, we construct them from the text that we hear and read the screen. So the proximity of these bodies, we don’t know how close they are, or how far. Of course, me and the co-screenwriter Lavinia Braniste, we we thinking about all these stupid laws – in Romania it was Article 200, forbidding gay relationships. Also in Iran, during the Shah and after the revolution, these kind of relationships were forbidden. So we were thinking about the larger picture of these two countries, but we didn’t want it to state clearly if it’s if it’s a friendship or a love story. “
One of the film’s bleak messages is that all revolutionary victories can be “confiscated” by repressive, conservative forces. Do you think Romania’s bumpy rebirth after Communist dictatorship has failed as badly as Iran’s Islamic Revolution of 1979?
“I’m not putting them on the same level, it’s much more complicated than that. But for me the message of this film can be that we should be careful to who we give the liberty that we fight for, this precious freedom. In Romania the people from the same system took it, they put all the blame on Ceaucescu and his wife, they shot them, but it was the same people in power, you know? No trials, nothing. In Iran at the same time there was so much enthusiasm coming from all levels of society, I was so impressed with what I saw in the archives, and read about. Intellectuals, left wing people, all religions were on the streets. But it was confiscated by Khomeini. But I don’t put them on the same level. For Romania if course it meant an opening to the western world, for Iran unfortunately it went into a darker direction.”
Between Revolutions was made with help from collaborators in Iran, but you do not name them in the credits, was this to protect them from the regime?
“Yes. We had consultants, we talked a lot about the character of Zahra, and the archives, and how we integrated them. They saw the film, they really liked it and said they really would like to say they worked on this project for the whole world. But due to security reasons, it’s better to keep a low profile. Because the Iranian government, like many other very strong dictatorships, they really want to have their own version of history. They don’t want some other people to reinterpret their narratives, to take a closer look in the archives. So they really keep their archives behind an iron door with big lock.”
Is it true that an Iranian agent in Romania tried to question you during production?
“It was a very strange encounter, because he said he was a journalist, and I was curious to meet him. Because during that time I was also studying the Persian language, which I’m still doing. So for me, it was really interesting to talk with someone, to find out more about the culture. But he gradually became more like an investigator, like someone from the regime. He became more and more angry about this film, asking me things like why did I choose a female perspective? And asking me from where I got the funding. I really felt that I went back to Romania in the 1980s, with the Securitate and Ceausescu. It was really strange.”
Is there any chance Between Revolutions could screen in Iran?
“People told me there have been some underground screenings. And people were very interested, we got messages on our social media, young people saying they didn’t know about these archives, and they were so happy to see their past in a different way. We got really emotional and really interesting feedback from Iran, and we also heard there is a version on a Telegram channel translated into Farsi,”
You have travelled to Iran, and other Middle Eastern countries, and you are now learning Farsi. Where does this personal interest come from?
“I think it comes from the fact that I’m coming from Romania, which was seen and is still seen as a marginalised Eastern European country that experienced Communism for such a long time and is trying to find its own way in this capitalistic western world. For me, the Middle East was really interesting. I found similarities to Romanian society there, but also the fact that Romanians are only interested in the western narrative. What is outside? Outside is also Middle East, we have a border with Turkey. I was also fascinated by Iran. I was born in 1979, when the revolution happened in Iran. So I was questioning myself a lot of times: what would I have done if I had been there, or if a revolution like this would happen in my country? These are some of the connections I’ve made. I’m also fascinated by Iranian culture and cinema. There are similarities between Iranian and Romanian cinema, seeing the ways the directors portray reality and life.”
You made Between Revolutions before the Iranian regime murdered Mahsa Amini, and the ongoing Woman Life Freedom protests that followed. Do you see any connection between this new embyronic Iranian revolution and your film?
“I think there are many connections. I discovered images from 1979, that I shared with my Iranian friends and collaborators, and they said: wow! These images look so contemporary, they seem like they’re from now in Iran. At the same time, some younger people said they couldn’t believe that women were very vocal and fighting for their rights even in 1979. I have to be honest, we were at the final stages of editing when the Mahsa Amini protests started in Iran. We were very anxious and curious about what was happening with the protests in Tehran and other cities. Romanian society changed a lot since the revolution in the 1980s but in Iran it’s the same regime since Khomeini, it’s the same people there.”
These Iranian women and men who are protesting are amazingly brave. Do you think they have any chance of success?
“It’s really hard to say which direction things will go. Even for Iranians, who are more able to talk about these changes. I talked with people from Iran, and they say for so many months they could see so many women together, not wearing the mandatory hijab any more on the streets, in coffee shops and restaurants, which is a big deal when we think of the people that make these laws in Iran now. But from what I heard and read, things are slowly moving in not a very good direction, because they try to suppress more and more. For example, they give fines to restaurants if they allow a woman without a hijab inside. So it’s hard to predict. But it was one of the most impressive movements, not only in the Middle East, but in the whole world. Led by women and supported by men. Really impressive.”
Speaking of repressive regimes, Russia’s brutal invasion of Ukraine is happening right now, just next door to Romania. How should film-makers respond to this conflict?
“I can only talk from a film-maker’s point of view, but there are many projects and people, from Ukraine and from other countries, trying to shed light on what’s going on there. To make politicians open their eyes and do more to stop this very cruel and horrible conflict. I think cinema and culture can change things, they can challenge the narrative we have from TV and from mainstream media. That’s why I think cinema is such an important tool. We have to fight to reach to reach people in not so commercial forms – more artistic, different forms of cinema.”
